The ISV Introduction states: "In the ISV New Testament, the Greek word christos is translated as “Messiah”—for example, the name and title Jesus Christ is rendered as Jesus the Messiah..."
No problem there.
However a page later they write: In the Old Testament, the traditional “LORD” is used for Yahweh. Where the Hebrew Adonai Yahweh occurs, the rendering “Lord GOD” is used. Yahweh Elohim is rendered as LORD God.
Notice that they write "name and title Jesus Christ" but they don't say "name" when it comes to Yahweh even though Yahweh is most definitely a name ["Let them know that you alone bear the name of Yahweh, Most High over all the earth." Ps 83:16 New Jerusalem Bible.] They seem to be treating this name as if it was only a title.
They say they use LORD for Yahweh. The Hebrew Old Testament already has a word for Lord...it is Adonai. Where Adonai and Yahweh are together, Yahweh is no longer LORD, it is now GOD, even though the Hebrew Old Testament already has a word for God, it is Elohim.
They say this is "traditional." However, the ISV Bible has no problem breaking with tradition when it comes to the use of inclusive language. Where we traditionally had "Man shall not live by bread alone" in the ISV now becomes "One must not live on bread alone." Where we traditionally had "For what will it profit a man, if he gains the whole world and forfeits his life?" in the ISV now becomes "what profit will a person have if he gains the whole world and forfeits his life?" Where Bibles for hundreds of years traditionally had the Johannine Comma "And there are Three who give testimony in heaven, the Father, the Word, and the Holy Ghost, and these three are one" the ISV does not. So the Tradition argument falls flat.
I think more accurately it comes down to money. Edwin H. Palmer, Executive Secretary for the NIV's committee once wrote: "we put 2 1/4 million dollars into this translation and a sure way of throwing that down the drain is to translate, for example, Psalm 23 as, 'Yahweh is my shepherd.'"
In a letter to the ISV in the late 1990's I wrote to ask them about this and I got this response:
"In regards to your puerile insistence on the "Divine Name" -- I have news for you. The ISV is in English, not Hebrew. If you want to use the "Divine Name" -- whatever you may think that it is (how DO you pronouce JHWH, or is the Divine Name KYRIOS, or is it Lord, lord, LORD, L-rd, L-RD, God, G-d, G-D?) -- go right ahead and spend two million dollars to prepare your own English language base translation of the Bible like we did. You can call God anything you want to, mistranslate "anthropoi" to fit your own uninformed prejudices, and do whatever you want to do with the text, all with your own petty baseless religious superstitions and prejudices, but with no real substantive scholarship behind it, just some silly superstitious religious nonsense which you presume to be more spiritual than our work. Your ridiculous letter has earned a place of hallowed presence in the Learn Foundation's "tartarus" page at http://isv.org/tartarus.htm (where all the
baseless comments are posted). I shall request that your letter be posted there, together with our response. I'm tired of people like you (and people like the woefully ignorant "King James Only" and "Textus Receptus" crowd) taking pot shots at our work. Please do not buy the ISV or any of our publications. Just shut up and leave us alone and don't bother to waste my time with any more email messages."
Charles Welty, Publisher
ISV New Testament
So they as well feel as if they would be throwing away 2 million dollars if they used the Divine Name. They, like the NIV Committee would rather appeal to the ignorance of their readership rather than educate them.
When they above write: "how DO you pronouce JHWH, or is the Divine Name KYRIOS, or is it Lord, lord, LORD, L-rd, L-RD, God, G-d, G-D?" they are really being silly. Their Introduction has no problem using Yahweh but in their reply to me they claim ignorance on the subject. Also, KYRIOS is not a Divine Name, it is a title normally translated Lord or Sir.
As an aside, the New Jerusalem Bible, which actually does use Yahweh faithfully, sells more Bibles than the ISV.
In the above response the ISV writes: "I have news for you. The ISV is in English."
Reply: Yes, all English Bible translations are in....English. But they are however translated from the Hebrew, Greek and Aramaic. By the tone of that sentence, I would expect "Jehoshophat" or "Jehoram" to be translated "Man". The fact is, it is the divine name Jehovah or Yahweh that has been excluded, and only that name. It is that name that is mentioned more often than any other name in the Bible, including Jesus, which incidentally, has a different Hebrew and Greek equivalent-Yeshua and Iesous. Perhaps we should remove his name from English ISV as well.
XXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXX
Addendum: Since I have posted my original letter, a kind Mr. Bradley O. Browne has come to my defense and has also had correspondence with the publishers of the International Standard Version Bible. But for his efforts, he was also placed on the ISV Tartarus page. The ISV is threatening Hell on us...but interestingly enough, while it may translate Tartarus(2 Peter 2:4) as "Hell", this same Bible also translates the greek word Gehenna(Matthew 5:22) as "Hell" and the greek word hades(Matthew 16:18) as "Hell". Obviously, the translators of the ISV will translate any word as "Hell" that they see fit. NOT a very useful version is it? You can download the ISV for free at
http://isv.org/isvi.htm
That should save you some money right there.
Bradley O. Browne
Senior Network Coordinator
C.B.I.
Milwaukee, WI 53202 wrote: "I've seen your picture, so you are a mature man physically, I would recommend you grow up socially."
The ISV wrote:
You've seen my picture on our web site, have you? Too
bad I'm not the person who wrote the flame. You have
slandered me by this statement, and by your entire email.
You are the one who needs to grow up, Mr. Browne. I
suggest you respond in a mature fashion to the writer of
the response to the email. Here's his email address:
mailto:crwelty@ffia.net.
Now, speaking of being grown up, are you grown up
enough to apologize to me for your ad hominum remark?
If so, I'll publish your apology as an addendum to your
original email and my comments thereto, since both are
going to take center stage at the Tartarus page of the ISV.
If anyone's email has deserved publication, it's yours.
William P. Welty, M.Div.
Executive Director
The Learn Foundation
To read more...just go to http://isv.org/Flames%20of%20Tartarus/bradley_o_browne.htm
This link and the one where the fires of hell have been placed besides my name have since disappeared (and the Tartarus page), thanks to Mr. Bradley's efforts.
Another Addendum:
Recently I received this letter from a Mr. Martin who wrote the ISV concerning the above:
Mr. Martin wrote:
> I find this letter highly offensive and out of line for those who are
to
> translate the Holy Word. Did you write this letter?
No. It was written by Davidson Press, one of the publishers of the ISV.
The people who posted the original comments, along with the reply comments by
that publisher, seem to have confused the differences between us as producers
of the translation and the publisher.
> If so, why? Why the rudeness? Why the lack of love?
> Why the unchristlike character displayed therein?
I have no idea why the people who wrote those misguided attacks on the
ISV would display such rudeness, lack of love, unchristlike character, etc.
as to falsely suggest we're liberal and all of the other things they said.
Perhaps you could ask them. I was puzzled with the Davidson Press response, but
given the rudeness, lack of love, etc. (your words) displayed by those who
attacked the ISV, I do think I can understand his frustration.
Regards,
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
/ William P. Welty, M.Div., Director
\ // The ISV Foundation
\\ /// 2200 North Grand Avenue, Suite 100
\\\' //// Santa Ana, CA 92705-7016 USA
\\\// _//// Telephone: 714.479.0975
\_-//' / ///< Fax: 630.214.5965
\ /// <//` Email: mailto:william@isv.org
/ >> \\\`__/_ Internet: http://isv.org
/.)-^>> _\` \\ ICQ#: 7521518
(/ \\ //\\ The letters in "INFORMATION SUPERHIGHWAY"
// _//\\\\ rearrange as "A ROUGH WHIMPER OF INSANITY"
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
metatron3@gmail.com
No problem there.
However a page later they write: In the Old Testament, the traditional “LORD” is used for Yahweh. Where the Hebrew Adonai Yahweh occurs, the rendering “Lord GOD” is used. Yahweh Elohim is rendered as LORD God.
Notice that they write "name and title Jesus Christ" but they don't say "name" when it comes to Yahweh even though Yahweh is most definitely a name ["Let them know that you alone bear the name of Yahweh, Most High over all the earth." Ps 83:16 New Jerusalem Bible.] They seem to be treating this name as if it was only a title.
They say they use LORD for Yahweh. The Hebrew Old Testament already has a word for Lord...it is Adonai. Where Adonai and Yahweh are together, Yahweh is no longer LORD, it is now GOD, even though the Hebrew Old Testament already has a word for God, it is Elohim.
They say this is "traditional." However, the ISV Bible has no problem breaking with tradition when it comes to the use of inclusive language. Where we traditionally had "Man shall not live by bread alone" in the ISV now becomes "One must not live on bread alone." Where we traditionally had "For what will it profit a man, if he gains the whole world and forfeits his life?" in the ISV now becomes "what profit will a person have if he gains the whole world and forfeits his life?" Where Bibles for hundreds of years traditionally had the Johannine Comma "And there are Three who give testimony in heaven, the Father, the Word, and the Holy Ghost, and these three are one" the ISV does not. So the Tradition argument falls flat.
I think more accurately it comes down to money. Edwin H. Palmer, Executive Secretary for the NIV's committee once wrote: "we put 2 1/4 million dollars into this translation and a sure way of throwing that down the drain is to translate, for example, Psalm 23 as, 'Yahweh is my shepherd.'"
In a letter to the ISV in the late 1990's I wrote to ask them about this and I got this response:
"In regards to your puerile insistence on the "Divine Name" -- I have news for you. The ISV is in English, not Hebrew. If you want to use the "Divine Name" -- whatever you may think that it is (how DO you pronouce JHWH, or is the Divine Name KYRIOS, or is it Lord, lord, LORD, L-rd, L-RD, God, G-d, G-D?) -- go right ahead and spend two million dollars to prepare your own English language base translation of the Bible like we did. You can call God anything you want to, mistranslate "anthropoi" to fit your own uninformed prejudices, and do whatever you want to do with the text, all with your own petty baseless religious superstitions and prejudices, but with no real substantive scholarship behind it, just some silly superstitious religious nonsense which you presume to be more spiritual than our work. Your ridiculous letter has earned a place of hallowed presence in the Learn Foundation's "tartarus" page at http://isv.org/tartarus.htm (where all the
baseless comments are posted). I shall request that your letter be posted there, together with our response. I'm tired of people like you (and people like the woefully ignorant "King James Only" and "Textus Receptus" crowd) taking pot shots at our work. Please do not buy the ISV or any of our publications. Just shut up and leave us alone and don't bother to waste my time with any more email messages."
Charles Welty, Publisher
ISV New Testament
So they as well feel as if they would be throwing away 2 million dollars if they used the Divine Name. They, like the NIV Committee would rather appeal to the ignorance of their readership rather than educate them.
When they above write: "how DO you pronouce JHWH, or is the Divine Name KYRIOS, or is it Lord, lord, LORD, L-rd, L-RD, God, G-d, G-D?" they are really being silly. Their Introduction has no problem using Yahweh but in their reply to me they claim ignorance on the subject. Also, KYRIOS is not a Divine Name, it is a title normally translated Lord or Sir.
As an aside, the New Jerusalem Bible, which actually does use Yahweh faithfully, sells more Bibles than the ISV.
In the above response the ISV writes: "I have news for you. The ISV is in English."
Reply: Yes, all English Bible translations are in....English. But they are however translated from the Hebrew, Greek and Aramaic. By the tone of that sentence, I would expect "Jehoshophat" or "Jehoram" to be translated "Man". The fact is, it is the divine name Jehovah or Yahweh that has been excluded, and only that name. It is that name that is mentioned more often than any other name in the Bible, including Jesus, which incidentally, has a different Hebrew and Greek equivalent-Yeshua and Iesous. Perhaps we should remove his name from English ISV as well.
XXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXX
Addendum: Since I have posted my original letter, a kind Mr. Bradley O. Browne has come to my defense and has also had correspondence with the publishers of the International Standard Version Bible. But for his efforts, he was also placed on the ISV Tartarus page. The ISV is threatening Hell on us...but interestingly enough, while it may translate Tartarus(2 Peter 2:4) as "Hell", this same Bible also translates the greek word Gehenna(Matthew 5:22) as "Hell" and the greek word hades(Matthew 16:18) as "Hell". Obviously, the translators of the ISV will translate any word as "Hell" that they see fit. NOT a very useful version is it? You can download the ISV for free at
http://isv.org/isvi.htm
That should save you some money right there.
Bradley O. Browne
Senior Network Coordinator
C.B.I.
Milwaukee, WI 53202 wrote: "I've seen your picture, so you are a mature man physically, I would recommend you grow up socially."
The ISV wrote:
You've seen my picture on our web site, have you? Too
bad I'm not the person who wrote the flame. You have
slandered me by this statement, and by your entire email.
You are the one who needs to grow up, Mr. Browne. I
suggest you respond in a mature fashion to the writer of
the response to the email. Here's his email address:
mailto:crwelty@ffia.net.
Now, speaking of being grown up, are you grown up
enough to apologize to me for your ad hominum remark?
If so, I'll publish your apology as an addendum to your
original email and my comments thereto, since both are
going to take center stage at the Tartarus page of the ISV.
If anyone's email has deserved publication, it's yours.
William P. Welty, M.Div.
Executive Director
The Learn Foundation
To read more...just go to http://isv.org/Flames%20of%20Tartarus/bradley_o_browne.htm
This link and the one where the fires of hell have been placed besides my name have since disappeared (and the Tartarus page), thanks to Mr. Bradley's efforts.
Another Addendum:
Recently I received this letter from a Mr. Martin who wrote the ISV concerning the above:
Mr. Martin wrote:
> I find this letter highly offensive and out of line for those who are
to
> translate the Holy Word. Did you write this letter?
No. It was written by Davidson Press, one of the publishers of the ISV.
The people who posted the original comments, along with the reply comments by
that publisher, seem to have confused the differences between us as producers
of the translation and the publisher.
> If so, why? Why the rudeness? Why the lack of love?
> Why the unchristlike character displayed therein?
I have no idea why the people who wrote those misguided attacks on the
ISV would display such rudeness, lack of love, unchristlike character, etc.
as to falsely suggest we're liberal and all of the other things they said.
Perhaps you could ask them. I was puzzled with the Davidson Press response, but
given the rudeness, lack of love, etc. (your words) displayed by those who
attacked the ISV, I do think I can understand his frustration.
Regards,
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
/ William P. Welty, M.Div., Director
\ // The ISV Foundation
\\ /// 2200 North Grand Avenue, Suite 100
\\\' //// Santa Ana, CA 92705-7016 USA
\\\// _//// Telephone: 714.479.0975
\_-//' / ///< Fax: 630.214.5965
\ /// <//` Email: mailto:william@isv.org
/ >> \\\`__/_ Internet: http://isv.org
/.)-^>> _\` \\ ICQ#: 7521518
(/ \\ //\\ The letters in "INFORMATION SUPERHIGHWAY"
// _//\\\\ rearrange as "A ROUGH WHIMPER OF INSANITY"
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
metatron3@gmail.com
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